Dirty Boots with Nathan Taylor

[00:00:00] CSI National, AI and Dirty Boots. We have a lot to discuss and this time we've got a guest too.

[00:00:12] Welcome to What the RFI. I'm Matt Brennan and this is the podcast dedicated to CA from the lens of an architect and a project coordinator.

[00:00:19] So this week has been different. We've been at CSI National and it's been quite a blast. It's been in Houston, Texas.

[00:00:28] And not only that, I'm here with Nathan Taylor from DTR. And so say hi Nathan.

[00:00:33] Nathan? Thanks for having me today. It's great to be here.

[00:00:36] Yeah, it's been fun and backstory. I think what's really cool is that you and I met at last year's CSI Minneapolis National event.

[00:00:45] It was my first event and I had no clue of anybody. I just started my career at part three, came on board and you were one of the first people I met.

[00:00:57] I think we're at the round table and then we said let's do a run and look what tradition's taken us.

[00:01:04] Yeah, we were able to run this year as well and get a way to warm up things and break a new fad into our conference attendees. It'd be great.

[00:01:12] But we haven't recruited anyone yet.

[00:01:14] We're working on it.

[00:01:15] Yeah, we'll see. Maybe we can get one tonight and yeah, what would that be? Just like we saw a bunch of bikes rolling. It was crazy and I'm sure we can get a whole bunch of runners.

[00:01:25] So anyways, I think before we get into it, like tell about yourself, your company, shoot your plug.

[00:01:31] Yeah, so I'm a building envelope consultant and I work for DTR Consulting Services out of Northern California.

[00:01:37] Our projects are up and down the coast, including Arizona and Nevada and some in Hawaii.

[00:01:44] We do write our own specs. However, most of the work that I do is based in construction administration.

[00:01:49] So I spend about half my time on site and half the time in the office taking care of RFIs and submittals and the paperwork that goes along with being on site.

[00:01:57] Yeah, no, exactly. And so like CSI National, like this is an event, you know, it's for all basically spec writers, you know, huge members, all different individual chapters.

[00:02:09] You know, if you're not involved, check it out. You know, again, very beneficial. You guys help each other out.

[00:02:13] Like, you know, I haven't been the benefit of being a member like you have.

[00:02:17] So there's been a lot of cross networking, meet a lot of really good people from all over the nation, at least for the national conference.

[00:02:23] I happen to be on the board of the Sacramento chapter as president right now, which has been amazing.

[00:02:28] Again, you meet wonderful people in your area. They're all industry professionals.

[00:02:32] So it's a great way to get networked, but also the educational events that come with it are wonderful.

[00:02:37] Yeah. Oh, very cool.

[00:02:39] So, so I guess it was like CSI, like we've got one more day and it's been jam packed since, you know, I got here on Tuesday.

[00:02:46] You got here yesterday and like, it's just been a tornado.

[00:02:49] And like, this is the final moment going on.

[00:02:51] You can hear in the hotel background of, you know, the parties going on and it's still, but any top moments for you?

[00:02:58] Well, this year is the first year I've been able to present, which has been really cool.

[00:03:02] I co-presented with a friend of mine that I also met through CSI actually studying for the CDT certification.

[00:03:07] So that was fun.

[00:03:09] We both met online for that one in a study group.

[00:03:12] Again, across the country during COVID, you weren't meeting in person.

[00:03:16] So being able to talk online was great.

[00:03:19] Having a study group that we could work together and pass that certification was great.

[00:03:23] CDT is amazing for project management.

[00:03:25] So anybody, again, in the industry who wants to learn more about how the entire project comes together, great opportunity to learn that.

[00:03:33] And so being able to present this year was really fun.

[00:03:35] It's the first time I've been able to give back in that way.

[00:03:37] Yeah.

[00:03:37] It's been nice.

[00:03:38] Yeah. We're going to definitely talk about that in a minute.

[00:03:40] But yeah, like any conference, lots of AI talks, you know, the keynote, they were going on about that.

[00:03:46] And, you know, it was fun.

[00:03:49] We had a good little question because someone challenged about what was the question that individual asked?

[00:03:53] It was about learning core values.

[00:03:56] Yeah.

[00:03:56] The idea that taking on AI helps with expediting a lot of different processes, but then people who are not doing those as a learning curve aren't getting that benefit in the long term.

[00:04:09] Which it's a good conversation that needs to be had, especially in an industry where a lot of things are learned firsthand by getting your boots dirty and being out on site and working on things and seeing how things are actually done.

[00:04:22] Again, AI has its place, but we'll see how fast it develops.

[00:04:28] We're hoping to use it to make ourselves better, but we have to put the hard work in too, I think.

[00:04:32] Yeah.

[00:04:33] You know, and like I was telling you like one story I heard on LinkedIn where it was two groups of students, you know, three and three.

[00:04:40] And they, you know, the challenge was they had to write a report on topic, you know, X or whatever.

[00:04:45] And, you know, one group was allowed to use the computer and internet and AI and all that fun stuff.

[00:04:51] And they banged the report out in something like 30 minutes, like just gone.

[00:04:54] And, you know, it was good quality for what it was.

[00:04:57] And then the other group had to go to the library and pull up the encyclopedias, no electronics, nothing.

[00:05:03] And, yeah, probably took them four hours, I think.

[00:05:06] But the retention was with the guys that sat down and flipped the pages.

[00:05:10] The other guys couldn't talk anything about it.

[00:05:13] Yeah.

[00:05:13] Again, learning by doing.

[00:05:14] When you put in the time to make an effort, your retention is great.

[00:05:18] But then you also apply it to other things that you're doing as well.

[00:05:21] And that's a big part of like the construction industry, at least.

[00:05:25] Learning from people doing things, you're going to learn it and hold on to it much more and be able to apply it to different applications.

[00:05:31] Yeah.

[00:05:31] If you've already picked it up that way.

[00:05:33] And here's a question with like some of the new staff, you know, kids coming out of school.

[00:05:40] Like how many have actually had any real experience, even with mom or dad?

[00:05:44] It doesn't matter.

[00:05:45] Like literally picking up a hammer, picking up a nailer, you know, building a piece of millwork.

[00:05:49] Yeah, that's kind of an expanding trend.

[00:05:52] I would say a lot of people don't even have like the backyard DIY with dad and mom or, you know, home renovations.

[00:05:59] And then you look at even the architecture schools that you talk about a lack of business knowledge or construction knowledge because they're learning the school side of architecture, but not the business side of it they're going to use in the field.

[00:06:11] Yeah.

[00:06:11] So coming into a firm, it's another learning curve and trying to find an opportunity to be on site or to learn the business aspect of a firm is also really important.

[00:06:21] So, again, by doing stuff, you're going to retain that a lot better.

[00:06:23] And like one thing I was taught by Richard Negra and one of my old principals that I worked under and right away, I remember he got so mad at the firm or whatever it was.

[00:06:34] And like because people were just making mistakes left, right and center.

[00:06:36] And he brought a piece of trace in there, you know, quiet as a room.

[00:06:40] And he just started drawing.

[00:06:42] And he's like, as I'm drawing this, I'm drawing the wall, but I'm drawing my mind.

[00:06:45] It was this whole pencil act versus like Revit just going click, click, click, click, click and not having any context.

[00:06:50] And that goes back to the whole hands-on touchy feeling.

[00:06:54] I'm a huge advocate for hand drawing.

[00:06:57] For me, it's a communication thing.

[00:06:59] So being on site, you almost always have a contractor who like pulls out a Sharpie and draws on a piece of cardboard or something to work at a problem.

[00:07:05] But everybody understands that drawing.

[00:07:07] It doesn't have to be perfect.

[00:07:08] It's not like a CAD reference drawing where everything's crisp, but it's a communication tool.

[00:07:14] And the other part of that is you really retain things by drawing them.

[00:07:19] Like as a person developing, your eyes actually grow out of your brain.

[00:07:23] So they're already like connected for that purpose.

[00:07:27] Like most of the information you gather in your life is visual.

[00:07:31] And so being able to communicate by drawing is a really big thing.

[00:07:35] And it's October.

[00:07:36] And what's going on in October there, Nathan?

[00:07:38] I've been hosting an Inktober architecture event for the last four years now.

[00:07:44] And we post prompts for each day during the month of October.

[00:07:48] And this year we've had, I think, over 300 so far different individuals.

[00:07:54] And then we have several different firms that have been producing like staff drawings as well.

[00:07:58] And a couple in Europe, which has been really cool.

[00:08:00] We had a French firm that has been participating, which has been amazing.

[00:08:03] But, yeah, just trying to promote drawing, but also build up the camaraderie of getting out together and doing something fun and sharing and inspiring each other.

[00:08:13] And how many years?

[00:08:15] I tried it out last year.

[00:08:17] I failed miserably not to keep up with every day.

[00:08:19] If you did any of them, you succeeded.

[00:08:22] This will be our fourth year.

[00:08:24] That's awesome.

[00:08:25] We're trying to make it bigger and bigger each year.

[00:08:27] So we'll see what happens next year.

[00:08:29] But this year's already going pretty good so far.

[00:08:31] Yeah.

[00:08:32] So just like anything, it just curves up.

[00:08:34] So cool.

[00:08:35] That is awesome.

[00:08:38] Yeah.

[00:08:38] I guess, yeah, it's always fun.

[00:08:40] Like I said, we talked to AI.

[00:08:41] Was there anything we talked about the availability or the kind of holding the retention?

[00:08:45] But anything that stuck out today that you're like, hey, that's really cool or you want to check out?

[00:08:50] So one of the conversations that I keep hearing about, again, is this transfer of knowledge and seeing how many young people are here

[00:08:58] or like hardcore industry professionals who have been here for a long time?

[00:09:02] And it's unfortunate because a lot of the people who have been here for a long time, we only have so much time with them to pass that information on.

[00:09:10] And if we don't have the younger crowd in now, we're going to lose that opportunity.

[00:09:14] And it's a rich, rich opportunity to learn a ton of information from people who literally wrote books on this stuff.

[00:09:22] And so like you see a couple of scholarship recipients this year, like for CDT and things like that.

[00:09:29] And like, you know, hands off to them.

[00:09:31] They're doing a great job.

[00:09:32] But that's what the industry really needs.

[00:09:34] And I think it's across the board.

[00:09:35] We need to get more young people out and learning about things and getting involved in projects earlier the better.

[00:09:41] Yeah.

[00:09:42] I was, yeah, last week I was out in the river with my son and I asked him, are they projecting, are they teaching anything about AI in school?

[00:09:50] Right.

[00:09:50] He's middle school, right?

[00:09:51] He's, you know, he's, he's grade eight in that sense.

[00:09:53] And I was thinking, I wonder if they're doing anything.

[00:09:56] And no, there wasn't.

[00:09:57] There was nothing, nothing going on.

[00:10:00] My son's in seventh grade.

[00:10:01] Are they teaching anything about AI?

[00:10:03] I don't know about AI, but they're doing some programming work.

[00:10:06] So they're already kind of edging towards that.

[00:10:08] I have a feeling by the time they hit high school, though, it's going to be a whole new thing that they're going to be involved in.

[00:10:12] Yeah, exactly.

[00:10:13] Good STEM classes and it's coming.

[00:10:15] So we need to be prepared for it.

[00:10:16] And us, the older generation, we have to figure out how to deal with this as it comes up too.

[00:10:20] And like my kids are old enough for like an iPhone, they have iPhones and stuff.

[00:10:23] And with the new iOS 19.1 or whatever, that's going to be like the first AI in their palm of their hand.

[00:10:30] So that will be their first exposure.

[00:10:32] Even Google prompting for AI, when you do a search at this point, it pops up with a bunch of stuff that, you know, retroactively,

[00:10:38] they're just looking at it and saying, you're probably asking about this, aren't you?

[00:10:41] Yeah.

[00:10:42] Yeah.

[00:10:42] So we'll see how that plays.

[00:10:44] But yeah, core values, keep up with it and just keep, you know, make them draw by hand.

[00:10:49] Exactly.

[00:10:50] And get them out.

[00:10:51] And that brings us into the next topic about their dirty boot session that you did.

[00:10:55] First of all, great topic and great session.

[00:10:58] You know, you and Julia, just wow.

[00:11:01] It was really cool.

[00:11:03] Thanks very much.

[00:11:03] It was a presentation that we've kind of built and rewritten a couple of times.

[00:11:08] It came out of basically an online conference session during COVID where nobody could meet.

[00:11:15] So we were all online and we'd met through that study group and decided like, well, hey, let's present together.

[00:11:20] And she was doing a similar presentation or a similar type of job scope that I was with building Outlook at the time.

[00:11:27] So it just made sense to talk about that and relationships on site and how things worked.

[00:11:31] And then the version we gave today is the new and improved, but really dives into the idea of getting specifiers and architects who are usually in the office doing work,

[00:11:43] but getting them on site to actually see what they're designing being built and the different benefits and reasons behind why that's important.

[00:11:51] Have you taken anyone like, again, kind of like newer staff, have you dragged them along to some of these meetings with you?

[00:11:56] I have been really lucky.

[00:11:58] Our office is a huge advocate for getting people out and doing things that they haven't done before.

[00:12:03] Even for me, like I got to start reviewing specs, which is not something I have a history of doing.

[00:12:08] So when I joined the firm, that was one of the things they asked to do.

[00:12:11] Being that I do so much CA work, I try to get other staff members on sites every opportunity I get.

[00:12:16] That's so cool.

[00:12:17] If it's close to our office and it won't affect the budget too much, do it.

[00:12:20] If it's an opportunity to see something that they're not going to see again, I'll take them with me.

[00:12:25] Every time we get a chance, it will ask like, how busy are they?

[00:12:28] Does it fit into the schedule this week?

[00:12:29] And then try to make it happen because it is an opportunity to learn just as well as anything else.

[00:12:33] I agree 100%.

[00:12:34] And like a couple of weeks ago when I was at AIA Spire in Nashville there before the floods, unfortunately.

[00:12:40] But yeah, one of the classes was all about mentorship.

[00:12:42] And with mentorship, some of them were talking about what their practices were doing.

[00:12:46] They would have like each Monday or Tuesday or whatever it was of every week.

[00:12:52] So four times a month, they would have a mentorship kind of get together and just talk and kind of coach each other.

[00:12:57] And what do you want to learn?

[00:12:58] And again, maybe that's an idea, but you're already doing it by the sounds of it.

[00:13:01] It was so cool.

[00:13:02] Yeah, just trying to reach out for the scope of work that our company does as well.

[00:13:05] Like we're not a traditional architecture firm.

[00:13:08] I mean, we're architects and we are registered and we can do architecture record scope and stamp documents.

[00:13:13] But we focus on building envelope, but our background is spec writing.

[00:13:17] So it's interesting that as our company has developed, we've taken on additional scope now being a lot of CA, you know, on-site construction and then forensic work as well, which has been really interesting.

[00:13:28] And those, again, huge learning opportunities, like dissecting somebody else's work because of a failure and figuring out why is a huge opportunity to learn a bunch of new stuff.

[00:13:36] Oh, I understand.

[00:13:36] So that's been fun too.

[00:13:38] And then it's just like deer in the headlights probably the first time.

[00:13:40] And it's so funny, like even think of yourself when you were young doing details, drawing that detail, and then you go out into a site and you're like, that doesn't look like, but it is the detail.

[00:13:51] But now you're looking at it as a whole different 3D.

[00:13:55] The first building that I got to design with the team, but where the design was largely mine, was a shipping container house, a large one in China when I was living there.

[00:14:06] And it failed miserably.

[00:14:07] But it's an amazing project because I can go back and reference, it was all waterproofing issues, which is exactly what I do now.

[00:14:13] Yes.

[00:14:13] And how much I learned from that and how we solved it because we didn't go back and retrofit, like fit everything and fix it.

[00:14:19] Yeah.

[00:14:20] But a huge learning curve, but great project to be able to reference.

[00:14:23] Yeah.

[00:14:24] No kidding.

[00:14:24] No, that is a good point because, well, and I was just going to say that, like, again, like I did a whole bunch of home rent.

[00:14:30] It was my place.

[00:14:31] So I did all these millwork details.

[00:14:33] And then I was like, this is beautiful.

[00:14:34] The renderings are everything complete.

[00:14:36] And then I look, I'm like, I got to build this now.

[00:14:38] And I'm looking at my drawings and I'm like, I forgot a dimension.

[00:14:41] Oh, I forgot.

[00:14:41] And I've been running back to my computer and grabbing those little details.

[00:14:44] And I'm like, this is the stuff that the contractors deal with.

[00:14:48] Yeah.

[00:14:48] And finding out at least what they've been dealing with on site is another benefit of being there.

[00:14:52] Yeah.

[00:15:00] Yeah.

[00:15:02] sequencing, not only from our drawings, like how do things need to be lapped, but how are they going to get it with the trades being there and working around all the different people that are installing it?

[00:15:12] Yeah.

[00:15:12] So that really helps with at least a consideration of, hey, they're dealing with a lot of stuff too.

[00:15:16] Yeah.

[00:15:16] We need to be cognizant of that as we make site visits.

[00:15:19] So we're not in the way and slowing things down.

[00:15:21] We're just making our observations and helping out as best we can.

[00:15:24] Yeah, exactly.

[00:15:25] And like always, like you're saying, like sequence and events and, you know, like especially when you've got multi-trades, like a mill worker may, you know, may not be staining the units or clear coating.

[00:15:34] You've got the painter.

[00:15:35] Same thing with the doors are being hung, but their doors are being painted by the painter.

[00:15:38] And you've got these sequence events.

[00:15:40] And once you add electrical to it, that's a whole nother element.

[00:15:44] Yeah.

[00:15:44] Trying to just organize, you know, MEP before we close out walls and then waterproof and watertight with roofs and walls before, you know, additional work starts in the building.

[00:15:53] So, yeah, good opportunity to get out there and see it actually built.

[00:15:57] And a couple of things from today's session, like it was a fun one when you mentioned about, you know, a standard American dollar bill is six inches long.

[00:16:05] And if you don't have your tape on, you know, that's a really good, you know, and, you know, all you need is a couple of men or, you know,

[00:16:10] I'll flip them over and I think that was a fun, that was a good fact, but it's true.

[00:16:14] Well, the catch for me is most industry standard upturns for like roof penetrations and roof flashings is six inches.

[00:16:20] So it's a great little like, like if I don't have that tape, stick this in here.

[00:16:24] We know it's basically where it's supposed to be.

[00:16:25] It's good to go.

[00:16:26] Take a picture and then none the wiser.

[00:16:28] And that's so cool.

[00:16:30] But one thing I was really blown away when you guys put the question out there about how many individuals have been on site?

[00:16:36] Like what, you know, what is their, like, are they there?

[00:16:38] Have they been there at all?

[00:16:39] Are they there once a month or twice a month or every week?

[00:16:43] And the reality wasn't a lot.

[00:16:45] Yeah.

[00:16:46] So having given this or a similar presentation before, I kind of knew where it was going.

[00:16:51] Yeah.

[00:16:52] But also getting feedback afterwards that like, hey, we might want to present at these other groups as well because it's the same type of issue.

[00:16:58] Yeah.

[00:16:59] A room full of professionals that are in the AC industry and a handful are on site every week.

[00:17:04] And I know they're doing multiple projects.

[00:17:07] Yeah.

[00:17:07] And then a few more every two weeks.

[00:17:10] And granted, what I do is CA, so I'm on the site all the time.

[00:17:12] Yeah.

[00:17:13] But you would expect at least from a standpoint of they designed these buildings and they need to be able to see that the work is conforming to the way they did it.

[00:17:21] Yeah.

[00:17:22] And so if you're looking at the site, that it matches, you know, specs and drawings and things like that, it needs a little bit of time on site.

[00:17:27] Yeah.

[00:17:27] And so hopefully we get to drive that home in the day.

[00:17:30] Hey, make some more time.

[00:17:32] Set aside a little bit of budget.

[00:17:33] You're going to need to be out here to see things happen.

[00:17:35] Because like in Vancouver, BC, like with AIBC and again, you know, RAC, all the kind of the government in the Canadian side.

[00:17:42] But I imagine the U.S. would be the same in respect to that.

[00:17:45] Like at the end of the day, whoever's the architect on record, they've got to, you know, if they ever got called in front of a judge, they would have to be able to say that they've been to site.

[00:17:55] And yes, they're going to have your, maybe a dedicated CA person that's doing all the field reviews, but like architect writer needs to go out there at least once a month, you know, for that monthly site meeting, do a walk around, make sure that things are being formed, you know, conforming to fire ratings, the life safety.

[00:18:12] And it's being followed because if you don't do that and you just leave it to your staff, that's not on register on title or whatever on that sense.

[00:18:20] You're stamping it.

[00:18:21] It's your responsibility.

[00:18:22] And granted, it's a larger firm thing.

[00:18:24] Like you can have other people go out and do that work to be reviewed, but the architect record has to put their stamp on it.

[00:18:30] And that means you're liable for all these things.

[00:18:32] And that's the same way.

[00:18:34] You need to know that it's built the way it's supposed to be.

[00:18:35] And if it goes really ugly, which we hope it never does, but it happens, you know, we heard the story today.

[00:18:41] Julia was talking about, but the reality is, yeah, if you're not on site and the judge calls you on it, it's not going to end well.

[00:18:47] I can't see it going very well.

[00:18:48] I've been part of, I believe, two litigations now.

[00:18:51] Yeah.

[00:18:51] As an expert witness, never been called for any other reason.

[00:18:55] Hope never to be.

[00:18:56] Nope.

[00:18:56] And I don't want to be.

[00:18:57] But yeah, it's not a situation you want to be in on either side, to be honest.

[00:19:01] Yeah.

[00:19:01] And hopefully, you know, everybody has some time on site and can not deal with that.

[00:19:07] Yeah.

[00:19:07] No, exactly.

[00:19:08] No, so 100%.

[00:19:11] Yeah.

[00:19:12] And again, we had a good laugh about your anchor bolt story where you went and investigated and, you know, all the anchor bolts were in place.

[00:19:20] Some washers were on there.

[00:19:21] That must be holding up, but there was no final attachment.

[00:19:25] Yeah.

[00:19:25] All of the tie downs for walls to a curb of a building where none of them had bolts.

[00:19:30] Again, like I said, it was the first time I've ever seen a building that wasn't attached to the ground.

[00:19:34] Yeah.

[00:19:34] And for it to be marked, like somebody came in and did QAQC, they spray painted it yellow.

[00:19:39] Somebody saw it, but there was no follow-up.

[00:19:41] No.

[00:19:42] That made it another issue on top of that.

[00:19:44] Yeah.

[00:19:45] But yeah, so many strange things popped up.

[00:19:47] And again, I get to look at some of the weirdest things because of the forensic side of things and that we are doing a lot of remedial design and fixing.

[00:19:55] There are so many crazy things that show up.

[00:19:57] What is the craziest thing that you've seen?

[00:19:59] Oh, man.

[00:20:01] Whole roof membranes that are no longer attached to the roof, so they're just billowing.

[00:20:05] Single-ply does that a lot.

[00:20:09] Just blistering of liquid applications where the moisture got trapped inside or has been driven through the substrate.

[00:20:15] Yeah.

[00:20:16] We see a lot of that type of failures.

[00:20:18] Some of the more interesting projects that are doing forensic investigations for, like, the Liberia Tar Pit Museum and being below-grade in excavation that has tar in it.

[00:20:27] And it's just a really abrasive element that the whole building is trying to survive in.

[00:20:32] Makes it really interesting to try to, like, problem-solve things that are going on there when you have, like, a geotech report that says, like, the land this is sitting on is going to try to eat the building.

[00:20:41] Right.

[00:20:41] Makes it interesting.

[00:20:43] It definitely does.

[00:20:44] And we need, like—well, that's a good topic on it.

[00:20:46] It's a whole discussion on it.

[00:20:47] Nolan, like, what do you guys—have you been in a spot where, like, you've tended a job and you knew those soils were bad?

[00:20:53] Like, how did you make—how did you pre-opt it?

[00:20:56] I've got my stories, but I want to hear your side.

[00:20:58] I mean, we ask for the geotech reports pretty early on in the project.

[00:21:02] Yeah, of course.

[00:21:02] So, at least we know what to kind of expect.

[00:21:04] Again, living in California, though, it's a whole other ballgame.

[00:21:07] Are soils all over the map?

[00:21:08] All over.

[00:21:09] Yeah.

[00:21:09] Seismic things are also going to be an issue.

[00:21:12] Anywhere down in the L.A. area, you're going to have a lot of, like, gas issues in the soil as well.

[00:21:17] Not radon.

[00:21:18] Not as much, but having a methane barrier in L.A. is, like, a huge thing.

[00:21:25] Okay.

[00:21:25] Almost all of the businesses downtown will have, like, methane alarms just for, like, carefulness of it.

[00:21:31] Yeah.

[00:21:31] And we had to have, like, a reader, a meter when we got into any excavation going down there as well just to, like, alarm us if something was going on.

[00:21:40] Right.

[00:21:40] So we can get out of excavations and be careful.

[00:21:42] Yeah.

[00:21:43] It's a different consideration to deal with.

[00:21:44] A hundred percent.

[00:21:46] And, like, going back to the geotech, like, what we did is, yeah, because you can't punch holes every square meter.

[00:21:50] You just—the costs are—you know, there you just—you kind of do some general ideas where you know you're going to be, like you said, early on in the process.

[00:21:56] We would do a stripping plan.

[00:21:58] So based on the geotech report, we would make some assumptions that, you know, based on this, we want a contractor.

[00:22:04] You're going to strip down to these bearing points based off the soils report.

[00:22:10] And anything, you know, so we knew what we were locked in.

[00:22:14] And, of course, you could do your pre-QS, you know, quantity survey.

[00:22:17] And then we put a unit rate in if there was any time that we had to issue a change directive because of the unknowns.

[00:22:22] And they actually get down there and go, oh, my goodness, the soil is completely garbage.

[00:22:26] And this is an area you didn't even test.

[00:22:28] Now we've got to pull it out and put proper, you know, fill, a structural fill.

[00:22:31] But the unit rate was there.

[00:22:33] And that worked out pretty good for the most part.

[00:22:36] You know, again, it was—

[00:22:36] It's a good way to handle it.

[00:22:37] So, yeah.

[00:22:37] Yeah.

[00:22:38] Well, you kind of—again, you're eliminating the risk as much as you physically can.

[00:22:41] And then if you're really uncertain, then put, like, a cash allowance.

[00:22:45] And knowing something is going to come up, but we're not sure what.

[00:22:48] Exactly.

[00:22:49] So, put it—you know, again, depends on how much it could be.

[00:22:51] It could be $500,000.

[00:22:53] It could be a million bucks for this cash allowance to basically as a contingency, just in case.

[00:22:58] But it worked out really well.

[00:22:59] And we used it a couple times because, again, you just can't punch every hole.

[00:23:02] And you find some bad soft spots.

[00:23:04] And then you have to fix it and issue the CD.

[00:23:06] And anyways, yeah.

[00:23:08] But, like, going back to site and site coordination, you had a really cool story about, you know, there was, like—

[00:23:15] You did a quick report and you saw there was a whole bunch of holes in the poly and everything.

[00:23:20] Like, uh—

[00:23:20] Yeah.

[00:23:21] Walking a site for below-grade vapor barrier and just finding a lot of, basically, just traffic damage.

[00:23:29] Rebar goes in after this.

[00:23:30] You're going to get holes in.

[00:23:31] And in this case, it had a lot.

[00:23:33] But the contractor had already coordinated with the installer to have people on site the day that we were going to walk prior to the pour happening.

[00:23:40] And we were able to patch as we noticed all of them.

[00:23:42] So, like, just walking the site together and dealing with it.

[00:23:45] Just really good coordination and solid communication.

[00:23:47] Solved a lot of problems.

[00:23:48] Kept everybody on schedule.

[00:23:49] They were able to pour the next day like they were supposed to be.

[00:23:52] We were able to knock out the whole area, find all these different penetration issues, fix them as we went.

[00:23:57] And it was great.

[00:23:58] And that's, like—

[00:23:59] Yeah.

[00:24:00] When it comes to schedule, like, those things are so powerful when a team does work together.

[00:24:04] Because, like, by delaying that pour, who knows when the next pour would be?

[00:24:08] Maybe the weather would turn or anything like that.

[00:24:10] Or the trucks are, you know, they're scheduled for another route or another job.

[00:24:13] And, you know, that one week can turn nasty because, again, it just—everything starts to backlog like a domino effect.

[00:24:21] So, like, having the contractor do it, that was great.

[00:24:24] And, you know, that ties into, you know, communication is key.

[00:24:27] It goes a long way.

[00:24:28] And, you know, any recommendations with how you dealt with some of the GCs on site?

[00:24:33] Did you have any GCs that were—they were hard to get along and they couldn't?

[00:24:37] But, yeah, building up a relationship with anybody that you're going to work for or with for the length of a project is important.

[00:24:44] And you're not always going to get along with people.

[00:24:46] And that's perfectly okay.

[00:24:47] Keep it professional the best you can.

[00:24:49] Yeah.

[00:24:49] But building up an active line of communication is huge.

[00:24:52] And it'll actually make things that might have been difficult much easier.

[00:24:57] Just knowing that you're available to help answer questions or ask them to get feedback.

[00:25:02] It's much easier to reach out and say, hey, I noticed on your three-week look ahead that something was changing.

[00:25:07] Like, do I need to come out early for you?

[00:25:09] Can I help you with something before I get there?

[00:25:11] That goes a really long way with building up that relationship.

[00:25:14] Yeah.

[00:25:14] And you never know.

[00:25:15] You're going to bump into them in another project later.

[00:25:17] If you get a good relationship already, it's wonderful.

[00:25:20] No, I agree with that.

[00:25:21] And, yeah, it's just key.

[00:25:23] There was a really good book one of the old partners mentioned was—it was—I can't remember the name of the author,

[00:25:30] but it was called Getting to Yes.

[00:25:32] That's the name of the book, Getting to Yes.

[00:25:34] And it's all about stripping the emotions from everything, from your conversation.

[00:25:38] So because we can get very passionate about our job.

[00:25:40] We've worked—we've put our, you know, our tears and blood, sweat and all this into these jobs.

[00:25:45] And then it's getting screwed up on site and you get real frustrated.

[00:25:48] And once money comes into it, it doesn't matter who you are.

[00:25:51] Money is a big, serious thing.

[00:25:53] Even though it's not your money, it still gets into a serious thing.

[00:25:56] And I've seen with the individuals that get really emotional, like you can't do that.

[00:26:02] You just got to keep the emotions out of it, you know, focus on the business side.

[00:26:06] And like same thing when you go in an email.

[00:26:08] Like when you write an email and you're upset, you're frustrated, take a breather, right, in that sense.

[00:26:12] And that goes back to communication.

[00:26:14] Well, when it comes down to it, we're all on the same team trying to make a building that meets the specs and drawings

[00:26:20] and is going to be a good property for the owner.

[00:26:23] And so the hope is, is everybody understands that and regardless of what our difficulties we have,

[00:26:28] we're able to like settle down on this is the end goal and we need to make sure we get there.

[00:26:32] 100%.

[00:26:34] And just even on top of that, what I thought was like, again, not wasting people's time,

[00:26:40] like going to site and reading last site meetings, meeting minutes, meeting notes.

[00:26:46] I think that's great.

[00:26:47] I think that's a good practice for anyone.

[00:26:49] Just to be clear what was up in there.

[00:26:51] Not necessarily the RFIs because so much has changed.

[00:26:53] They should have been come and gone because this should just be fresh RFIs unless there was something that's just,

[00:26:58] you know, you're waiting for like a service to come in or whatever the case is.

[00:27:01] But the point is that you're doing that due diligence and then you're just bringing the issues to site.

[00:27:08] Yeah.

[00:27:08] And but also keeping your eyes open is you're there usually to go after one or two specific things.

[00:27:14] So you're coming in to observe a portion of work that's just been completed or that it's in progress.

[00:27:18] Yeah.

[00:27:19] But being able to be mindful of like what's coming next and knowing in the construction skills of what to expect in the coming weeks.

[00:27:25] Sometimes you have the opportunity to fix something before it becomes an issue.

[00:27:28] Again, saves everybody a little bit of time and money.

[00:27:30] It's good stuff.

[00:27:31] Yeah.

[00:27:32] Yeah.

[00:27:32] No, absolutely.

[00:27:33] Is there anything that we haven't talked about like for kind of just that extra advice?

[00:27:38] Yeah.

[00:27:38] I'd say for young professionals or emerging professionals that really want to get on site, reach out to your senior staff and your project managers if you're working for an architecture firm and basically ask.

[00:27:51] Say, hey, I'd really like to be on site.

[00:27:53] I'd like to learn from what's going on there and be able to compare what we're designing and writing and specifications and putting in our drawings to what's actually happening on site.

[00:28:02] But also when you're in the office, get involved with RFI response and submittal responses because then you're reading through the specs and you're supposed to know what's going to be on the site then.

[00:28:10] So that site visit will be much easier once you've already kind of integrated a little bit of CA from the office side as well.

[00:28:16] So, you know, reach out if you're in school as a young inspiring designer and you want to do an internship, you can always, you know, do construction management with a construction group.

[00:28:27] Yeah.

[00:28:27] Actually learn how it's built instead of working for just an architecture firm.

[00:28:30] Yeah.

[00:28:30] You'll come in with a very different mindset and a different kind of grouping of, let's call it a different skill set that'll go a long way.

[00:28:44] And that's something else that really is beneficial when you're in a position where everybody else is doing design, but you actually know how it's built.

[00:28:51] That helps out a lot.

[00:28:53] Absolutely.

[00:28:54] So where can everyone find you?

[00:28:57] Easiest is either on LinkedIn, Nathan Taylor, search Northern California or DTR Consulting Services.

[00:29:03] You'll find me.

[00:29:04] I post a lot.

[00:29:05] And also on Instagram under Buildingscape, which is also the platform that hosts Inktober every October.

[00:29:12] Yeah.

[00:29:12] But we also share a lot of different construction and architectural photos to build up conversations.

[00:29:17] Yeah.

[00:29:18] Very cool.

[00:29:19] Well, thanks for doing this.

[00:29:20] And thanks for being my first guest on the show.

[00:29:22] Like, this has been awesome.

[00:29:23] Very flattering.

[00:29:24] So thank you.

[00:29:24] Yeah.

[00:29:25] As you said, you know, flattered.

[00:29:27] I'm honored in that sense.

[00:29:29] But yeah, this has been so much fun.

[00:29:31] And I cannot wait till the next CSI.

[00:29:33] And we'll do it all again.

[00:29:34] And we'll get all the runs.

[00:29:35] And we'll do the podcast.

[00:29:36] And we'll do more.

[00:29:37] We'll probably, we'll definitely do some more between.

[00:29:39] I'm sure.

[00:29:40] Sure.

[00:29:40] Yeah.

[00:29:41] Excellent.

[00:29:41] So thank you very much.

[00:29:42] Yeah.

[00:29:42] Yeah.

[00:29:43] Very cool.

[00:29:44] So in that saying, guys, you know, architects keep designing and contractors keep making those

[00:29:49] building plans a reality.

[00:29:50] We'll see you on the next one.